Rewind Series - Revisiting Google Analytics 4: What's Changed Since 2023
Revisiting Google Analytics 4: What’s Changed Since 2023 (and What Contractors Should Care About Now)
When Google officially sunset Universal Analytics and pushed everyone into Google Analytics 4, the reaction from contractors was almost universal:
“Where did my reports go—and why is this so complicated?”
Now that GA4 has had time to mature, we’re revisiting the platform to answer an important question:
Has GA4 actually improved since 2023—and is it worth using today?
GA4 Then vs. Now
In its early days, GA4 promised better cross-device tracking, improved privacy compliance, and a more future-proof analytics model. In reality, many contractors found:
Familiar reports were missing
Basic metrics were harder to find
Customization felt intimidating
Data didn’t always match ad platforms or CRMs
Since 2023, Google has made meaningful updates that improve usability, reporting flexibility, and clarity—especially for marketers managing lead generation campaigns.
What’s Improved in GA4
While GA4 still has limitations, several updates have made it more usable:
More intuitive reporting layouts and saved reports
Better event tracking visibility for forms, calls, and key actions
Improved comparisons and date range analysis
Clearer attribution paths when paired with ad platforms
These changes make GA4 more useful for spotting trends, diagnosing performance drops, and understanding how users interact with your site.
GA4 Is Directional—Not Gospel
One of the biggest takeaways from this episode is mindset.
GA4 should not be treated as a perfect source of truth. Instead, it’s best used as a directional tool that helps answer questions like:
Are leads trending up or down?
Which channels are driving engaged traffic?
Are website changes improving user behavior?
To get real clarity, GA4 must be paired with:
Your CRM
Call tracking software
Google Ads & Meta Ads dashboards
When these systems are viewed together, patterns emerge that GA4 alone can’t fully explain.
Common GA4 Mistakes Contractors Still Make
Even with improvements, many contractors struggle because they:
Expect GA4 numbers to perfectly match other platforms
Don’t configure conversion events correctly
Over-focus on vanity metrics instead of lead quality
Never customize reports to match their business goals
GA4 works best when it’s intentionally configured—and reviewed with realistic expectations.
The Bottom Line
GA4 isn’t going anywhere. While it may never feel as simple as Universal Analytics, it has become more usable since 2023.
Contractors who take the time to understand what GA4 does well—and where it falls short—will be far better equipped to make smart marketing decisions moving forward.
If you ignored GA4 after your first frustrating login, now is the time to revisit it—with a clearer strategy and better tools alongside it.
Audio only version of the podcast here.
Podcast Transcript
Welcome to Digital Marketing for Contractors, a podcast for home improvement contractors to help you crush your lead goals and take your business to the next level. Join us each episode as we give you powerful insights and practical tips on the best digital marketing strategies to help you grow your home improvement business. Let’s get started.
Caitlyn Noble:
Welcome back to Digital Marketing for Contractors Podcast. We are starting a new series. It’s called the Rewind Series. We’re going to revisit our most downloaded episodes of all time and give you the 2025 update. What’s still true, what’s changed, and what you need to know now. I am Caitlyn and I am so honored to be sitting here next to my business partner, Janet.
Janet Mobley:
Hello, I’m Janet. And today we’re rewinding to the magical month and year of July 2023. It feels like a lifetime ago. It does feel like an absolute lifetime ago. In that magical month and that magical year, July of 2023, the year of our Lord, we published an episode on the Google Analytics new version.
Caitlyn Noble:
It was coming out two years ago.
Janet Mobley:
It was coming out two years ago. It’s called Google Analytics 4. And that was when Google shut down Universal Analytics, which is the analytics tool that we’d all used for like 20 years. And let me tell you, the marketing world was acting like the sky was actually falling.
Caitlyn Noble:
Every contractor was getting one of those scary emails. Urgent, switch now or lose all of your data, which was only half true.
Janet Mobley:
So today we’re going to break down what still matters when it comes to GA4, what’s changed since then, and the actions that you should take in 2025 and 2026 to make GA4 useful and not overwhelming.
Caitlyn Noble:
Okay. So we’re going to rewind, but we’re not going to make you re-listen to that episode, even though it’s our top episode ever. So maybe you’ve already listened to it.
Janet Mobley:
Maybe you’re one of the people who listened to it.
Caitlyn Noble:
So in 2023, we kicked it off by saying, I’ve been getting emails that make it sound like the world is falling apart because Google is switching to Google Analytics 4. And then immediately, is it as big of a deal as everybody is making it out to be? I’m going to say no.
Janet Mobley:
Yeah. And so that’s what we were saying then that Google and really so many like scare tactic emails were get our clients were getting hit with these. Yes. Oh my God, do it now, or everything’s going to be horrible. And then they’d turn around and ask us, is everything going to be horrible? And what am I supposed to be doing now? What’s going to happen with my data? So some of that is still true today. You’re not going to lose your business. You’re not going to lose business because of a Google Analytics update. You’re just not. Analytics are analytics. It’s reporting. Yeah. You’re not going to tank your leads, and you absolutely don’t need to hit panic or hire someone out of fear just to get more charts and more reports. Because that’s what it is. It’s charts and reports. It’s not leads. Honestly, just not still great. Everybody put the gun down. It’s fine. It’s going to be fine.
Caitlyn Noble:
So in that OG episode, we laid out the basics. Uh we talked about analytics is just a tracking tool.
Janet Mobley:
Charts and high charts, bubble charts, line charts.
Caitlyn Noble:
Maps of the United States. Oh, yeah.
Janet Mobley:
I actually did really like the map thing.
Caitlyn Noble:
It measures visitors, pages, sources, and events. Um, it helps you understand what’s working online, and if you had universal analytics, it simply stopped collecting data. That is so true though.
Janet Mobley:
Like, yeah, it in 2023, it was like, nope, no new data can go into this.
Caitlyn Noble:
It so forget trying to track anything before 2023 that happened on your website. What else do we explain?
Janet Mobley:
Yeah, so in 2023, when we did this episode, we were explaining, you know, things that that should resonate with you. Like what does analytics track? It tracks page visits, important, um, form submissions. Very important. That’s the one you should care about. People filling out a form saying, give me a quote. Click to call. Um, also important, but sometimes it’s people trying to sell you something, uh, click to text, and which of your service pages were getting the most traction. It also showed you where uh traffic was coming from. That means like, are people visiting your website from paid ads, from your social media campaigns, from organic search? Are they coming direct? So that was kind of a recap of what we talked about in 2023 when it came to Google Analytics for and universal analytics. What else do we talk about in the OG episode?
Caitlyn Noble:
So um we debunked the fear-mongering. Uh, we told everybody you don’t need to panic. You do not need a massive rebuild, and you do need to make sure that GA4 is installed. Please, if you’re listening to this and y’all don’t have Google Analytics installed on your website, just send me a personal email and I’ll help you out.
Janet Mobley:
Okay, so that’s what we talked about then. So what is still true? Yeah, it’s the same. It’s been two and a half years. Two and a half years. Here’s what has not changed. You, a home improvement contractor, you do not need to become an analytics expert. You just need GA4 for the information that helps you make marketing decisions. And fun fact, you can even delegate those marketing decisions. So you really just need this tool installed on your website that’s gonna spit out reports that help you decide stuff.
Caitlyn Noble:
Still true. You will be totally fine if you aren’t checking analytics every week. Many level one and level two contractors can run without obsessing over data. If you have an agency, they’re doing it for you.
Janet Mobley:
Yeah. Also, still true, analytics can help you diagnose problems. Absolutely. So let’s say the traffic on your website drops. Yes, or weight increases, or increases, or your leads slow down, or a specific page stops converting. Analytics is the tool that you’re gonna get out of your toolbox to help you understand why.
Caitlyn Noble:
Still true. You should never be overly dependent on one source of traffic. In the original episode, we talked about a contractor who got 90% of their traffic from PPC. Huge red flag. Still a red flag today.
Janet Mobley:
So, what else is still true? That was true then when we recorded the original episode. Looking at your traffic mix, just like Caitlin said, and that mix is like, is it coming from your social? Is it coming from paid ads? Is it coming from organic search? That is one of the fastest ways to evaluate the health of your digital ecosystem.
Caitlyn Noble:
And last but not least, still true. If you had universal analytics before 2023 and never upgraded, that data is long gone. And that’s okay, just start fresh. So let’s get into it. What’s different?
Janet Mobley:
Yeah, so that’s a recap of what we talked about two and a half years ago and what’s still true. So, what’s different is that GA4 now 26, 30 months later, is I had to do some math in my head. Did you see how you see smoke coming out when I was trying to do that two and a half years math? I think it’s 30 months. Anyway, so what’s what here we are 30 months later. GA4 is now much better at cross-device tracking. So they’re not perfect. So back in the original episode, we talked about how people that’s users, and you probably care about homeowners, how they switch between their phone, their iPad, their desktop. And GA4 now does a much better job of connecting that one human as that human puts down one device and picks up another.
Caitlyn Noble:
And in 2025, that’s even more true. People jump devices constantly. I know I do, I know OG here.
Janet Mobley:
I absolutely do.
Caitlyn Noble:
More than I do, yes. Um, and GA4 can merge a lot of that behavior.
Janet Mobley:
Yeah, but privacy settings, Apple tracking restrictions, cookie loss, all of that disrupts tracking.
Caitlyn Noble:
So GA4 perfect, no. Is it the best we’ve got? It it it really is. Um so here’s an action step for you if you’re listening. Um, check your mobile versus desktop performance each quarter. We actually look at it monthly, just so you know. Um, but quarter is very important. If mobile conversion is low, your mobile website experience needs work. So there’s an action step.
Janet Mobley:
That is a really good tip. Yeah. Um, you’re saying, just let me linger on this tip for a second. You’re saying don’t just look at where are you getting traffic, mobile versus desktop. Take it a step deeper and say where are you getting conversions? And let’s say, I mean, it’s just gonna make it really easy. Let’s say half of your traffic people are looking on a mobile device and half of it they’re looking on a desktop, but 80% of all of your conversions are coming from a desktop. Yep. That’s a red flag. Yes. You should be getting more mobile conversions, and so that’s a clue telling you something about your website on a mobile, on a phone looks janky. Yes. Ding a ling ding. Or people can’t click on things, or the button is obscured by a new pop-up added. Yeah, correct. Millions of chat bots that you people always want to put on your sites are making your mobile site just don’t put it on janky.
Caitlyn Noble:
Okay, difference number two. Did you see that? Yep. She’s trying to scroll up with her.
Janet Mobley:
I’m trying to scroll a touch screen that’s not a touch screen. Yeah. Back to the case. I am aging in place on this episode. That’s why she jumps devices.
Caitlyn Noble:
A second difference, the uh data modeling has improved significantly.
Janet Mobley:
So GA4 is going to fill in the missing data with machine learning. And universal analytics, that’s the old analytics before they forced us to change. It would never be able to do that.
Caitlyn Noble:
What does that mean? So, even if someone blocks cookies or tracking, which a lot of y’all do, um, GA4 can estimate behavior patterns more accurately than before.
Janet Mobley:
So, this is especially h helpful for us in the home improvement industry because we see a ton of traffic from iPhones. And iPhones is um is noteworthy to pull out because Apple has made such a huge push in recent years on privacy. So those iPhones are gonna have those privacy um settings baked into them. They’re gonna have ad block devices, the Safari browser is very different. So, with all of that, with so much traffic um from homeowners coming through iPhones, it can make it difficult in the digital marketing world to get the data on the reports that you really want to see. Like, where are my conversions coming from? Where am where’s my traffic coming from? Where are people dropping off? Yes. Well, if they’re all on iPhones, it it’s really hard to see because Apple has made it so challenging to share that data with Google Analytics.
Caitlyn Noble:
Action step, um again, uh level you know, one and two, you know, this is something you can definitely reach out and have a marketing, you know, agency or your marketing team do this for you. Um, but you need to review modeled conversions. That’s just you can search for it in there, modeled conversions in GA4 once a month, especially if you’re on PPC. This is gonna help you understand the real picture.
Janet Mobley:
So that action step of reviewing modeled conversions. I want to make sure I’m following the conversation. Yes, these are um this is GA4 using probably AI to guesstimate where where they can’t see. So they can’t see into the black box that is Apple phones, but they’ve still got reports to help us figure out, and that’s what they’re calling modeled conversions. Yes. Okay, cool. That’s a cool tip.
Caitlyn Noble:
I know good these are these are good tips. Uh the third difference, the interface is ten times more confusing.
Janet Mobley:
Yeah, I hate GA4 compared to the old um universal analytics.
Caitlyn Noble:
I’m gonna be completely honest. Like, I I it makes me grumpy to log into it. And we have staff here at Fat Cat who just log into it easy breezy, lemon squeezy. I use we we have a um uh dashboard that is synced up with GA4, and I use that dashboard because it’s easier to use.
Janet Mobley:
Anyways, like all of the, I mean, if we can just go on a rant for a second, all of the things that were really cool that you would want to look at from your analytics, they were in like a sidebar that was easy to navigate and you could expand it, and you could look at like mobile conversions. You and now you log into GA4, and to me it just looks like a big old white screen with nothing to click on. Nothing. So you have to like know the magic place to click to have it expand, and then well, guess what?
Caitlyn Noble:
Guess what? What it might be ten times more confusing, but it’s ten times more flexible. Whatever.
Janet Mobley:
It’s why we have staff. Uh yeah. So if you’re a contractor and you’re listening and you and you say things like back in the day, like I say a lot, yes, and you’re like, back in the day, I could log into my analytics and I could see stuff, and now I log into it and I don’t see anything. That’s you’re not alone.
Caitlyn Noble:
You’re not alone. It does give you incredible flexibility, but it is not built for beginners, to Janet’s point.
Janet Mobley:
Yeah, and I’m now I’ve come full circle where now I’m a beginner.
Caitlyn Noble:
So this is actually um I like this action step. This is a good step.
Janet Mobley:
Hit the listeners with the action step.
Caitlyn Noble:
So you can create, because of the flexibility of GA4, your own dashboard with, and this is what y’all should be looking at all the time total users, total sessions, and this is obviously your website, your top pages, contact form submissions, which is known as events, click-to-call events, and traffic sources. Obviously, we can build this for you. GA4 makes it pretty easy for you to do it yourself as well.
Janet Mobley:
I love this action step, but I’m gonna be a little bit uh sassy and salty. Oh no. So Google gave us universal analytics that showed us all of those things that you just rattled off, then they took it away from us, they shoved GA4 down our throats, forced, forced it on us, took away the data from the old platform. And now to get the like, what are those top six data points that used to be right there front and center on the old universal analytics. You gotta make it yourself. Now you gotta go make your own damn dashboard.
Caitlyn Noble:
Which is what I just told y’all I’ve done with our own tool that we use. Hate.
Janet Mobley:
That just makes me so irritated.
Caitlyn Noble:
So irritated. But hey, at least it’s more flexible.
Janet Mobley:
We love hating on Google.
Caitlyn Noble:
Difference number four attribution models. Attribution models. This is so important.
Janet Mobley:
Especially this is what’s new and different since we recorded in 2023.
Caitlyn Noble:
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Attribution models have become more accurate for contractors. In 2023, attribution was messy. Nobody knew. Was it PPC, organic, brand awareness, radio, yard sign?
Janet Mobley:
So for the for the um Janet. Adult, the adult and old who are listening, what do you mean by attribution? What does that word mean to you in this context?
Caitlyn Noble:
Me, Caitlin.
Janet Mobley:
You as a digital marketer.
Caitlyn Noble:
Oh my god. It’s how you know where you’re driving traffic to your website. It’s how you know this. I mean, like it’s how you know where people are coming from to find your business. Right. Okay and leads. And well, obviously leads, yes.
Janet Mobley:
But it’s not just leads.
Caitlyn Noble:
Yeah, but like it’s like I know because of this PPC ad, yeah, I generated 20 leads, which generated X amount of dollars.
Janet Mobley:
Yes. Yeah. This is what our clients always want to know. So important. Where did I spend my money where I made money back? Correct. And that’s what attribution is.
Caitlyn Noble:
And we, y’all, we’ve got episodes on attribution throughout this podcast.
Janet Mobley:
So in 2023, when they shoved this new tool that nobody asked for down our throats, attribution was a hot mess. That and now in 2025, a hot 30 months later, GA4 is giving us, quote, data-driven attribution that actually gives you clear insights into which channels deserve credit.
Caitlyn Noble:
So to Janet’s point, it’s actually answering questions, big questions.
Janet Mobley:
Where did that lead come from? Where did that traffic come from?
Caitlyn Noble:
Is my SEO actually doing anything? Is my PPC spend too high? Are my offline campaigns working? Love it. Action step. You need to review your conversion paths once a quarter. Again, it does make it easy to just search. Search conversion paths. You’ll see the order. Wow, you’ll see the order channels appear in, channels appear in before someone fills out a form. This is incredibly useful. So yes, Janet was saying it’s about a lead, but you can also see, like to Janet’s point, or even to my point, that okay, somebody came into my web off my website directly because they saw a yard sign and then they left and then they came back through an ad and then they filled out a form. Conversion paths, super important.
Janet Mobley:
How is it tracking yard signs? Do we have to use special URLs? Yeah.
Caitlyn Noble:
Oh my God. I think we’ve got another episode on that. But that directly, so directly somebody could scan in a QR code off a yard sign or directly type in your website URL. And so you’re assuming it’s a yard sign or a truck, or anyways.
Janet Mobley:
Okay, difference number five, Janet. In universal analytics, again, that’s the tool that we all loved and they took away from us. Universal analytics events were a pain. So what is an event? Dumb name. An event was the name that Google gave us for let’s say you had a big old red button on your homepage that said like Valentine’s Day sale. Yeah. We could configure what’s called an event to tell you how many times somebody clicked on that button. Yeah. And then we could do tests. So back in the day when we had Universal Analytics and you wanted to configure events and track them, you had to configure every single event separately and manually.
Caitlyn Noble:
And they were it was hard to be accurate. Um on a positive note, GA4 tracks many events automatically scrolls, video plays, outbound links, etc.
Janet Mobley:
Okay. So that sounds good. Finally, something good about GA4. One positive one small thing. Events are easier to track. And so for home improvement websites, the biggest wins for that event tracking are still easily being able to track click to call, click to text, form submission, get an estimate button clicks, project gallery interactions, and navigation between service pages. Let’s say you’ve got a kitchen page and a bath page, you can see where people navigate. Between those two things. That’s called an event. And so all of that is easier to gain insights from with Google Analytics 4 or GA4. Definitely.
Caitlyn Noble:
Action step, you guys, make sure your primary conversions are configured. We’ll have this all listed out, but generate underscore lead, form underscore, submit, call underscore click, and request underscore quote are just a few examples that these drive real decisions when you have these configured.
Janet Mobley:
Not the sexiest names in the world. Wow. But it does. And we didn’t name them, but yeah. If you’re going into GA4 and you’re looking at primary conversions, those four, to your point, those are the real, that’s where the money is. It is. That’s where people are making a decision to interact with your business. 100%. And you want to be able to track that data.
Caitlyn Noble:
Okay, Lord. So if you’re listening to this and thinking, just tell me the steps. Okay, what should you be doing right now? Okay, top five GA4 to-dos for contractors in 2025. Jen, I’m gonna let you swap it back and forth with me. Okay, number one.
Janet Mobley:
Number one, make sure GA4 is installed correctly. Many contractors that we encounter when we first start working with them, they think their analytics is installed correctly and it’s not. So, number one, make sure it’s set up right.
Caitlyn Noble:
We can definitely audit your site for free to let you know if it’s not installed correctly. Um, number two, track only the events that matter. Don’t overload those accounts with noise. It’s so easy to get into the noise. Focus on, as you guys know, as you do already, calls, forms, clicks to those uh contact us pages, and then, of course, high value service page engagement. Are people spending time on your bathroom remodeling page? Are they spending time on your James Hardy signing page? What’s happening there?
Janet Mobley:
Okay, number three, check your traffic mix monthly. We hit on this earlier. You want to make sure you’ve got a healthy mix and avoid the trap of relying on PPC, which are those paid ads, alone. I think we mentioned earlier in this episode, uh in the early in the original 2023 episode that we did, we had somebody that we saw they were getting 90% of their traffic from ads, especially in this day where like AI is changing how people search and there’s new AI-driven browsers. If you’re relying so heavily on paid ads, you could get caught um caught in a bad situation. So number three, check that traffic mix and make sure it’s a healthy mix of different sources.
Caitlyn Noble:
Number four, um, I mean, it’s just simply not possible. You you can compare year over year data based on what’s in GA4. We do not have the data from Universal Analytics, it’s gone. You can’t.
Janet Mobley:
Yeah, so if you if you’re like, hey, we did fantastic in 2021.
Caitlyn Noble:
Yeah, 2022.
Janet Mobley:
2021, 2022. I’d really like to compare June of 2025 to June of 2022. You can want it just like people in hell want ice water, but you ain’t gonna get it. You’re not gonna be able to compare. You can compare stuff from QuickBooks, you can compare stuff from your CRM, you can compare memories, maybe you kept a journal in like a pink notebook. You could compare all of that, but you ain’t gonna get a comparison of 2025 to 2021 from Google Analytics. No, because they took it away from you. So just stop trying to do it.
unknown:
Yeah.
Caitlyn Noble:
Um, unless you’re on a spreadsheet, maybe with exported outdates. Maybe you exported a spreadsheet.
Janet Mobley:
I could guess. I could imagine people who went through the past 24 months that we’ve all lived through, which you know, a lot of liquor was consumed, decisions were questioned. That’s true. You know, we all like that’s true, looked at ourselves in the mirror. Only forward from here, y’all. And and we’re like, what just happened? What just happened in home improvement? We were riding high, and then we weren’t riding high. So, like, I could see in 2025 going like, hey, you remember when things were good in 2022? Yeah. What was different? What was different? You can’t see it. Not in Google Analytics, you can’t. You can see it in um your vacation pictures when you were happy. Your liquor bill that was lower.
Caitlyn Noble:
She went there. This is the last step for now, and I promise you it’s one of my favorites. You’ve got to use GA4 to find quote unquote leaks in your site. If people visit your roofty roofing page a thousand times, but only three forms come in. Y’all, something is not working on that page. Yeah.
Janet Mobley:
You’ve got a you, my friend, have a conversion problem. And there’s a cream for that. Um and GA4 will show you where to put that cream.
Caitlyn Noble:
Yeah, that’s fantastic. That’s fantastic. Um that’s you just processed what I said.
Janet Mobley:
I can see it on your face. You’re like, ew.
Caitlyn Noble:
Oh. So um let’s only record podcasts late in the afternoon. That’s my my goal. Um, and if you’re still with us and you want to make sure your GA4 is set up correctly or fix it without hiring a developer or an agency, even though we’re a great resource, you can download our free GA4 resource at Fatcatstrategies.com backslash GA4.
Janet Mobley:
It walks you through the exact steps of how to set it up for a home improvement website. There’s no panic, no tech speak. It’s just a really easy to use guide that shows you exactly what you need. So go to our website, fatcatstrategies.com slash GA4, and you’re gonna get that free guide. So thanks for joining us for another episode. The first. It’s another episode of the podcast, but it’s the first in our rewind series where we’re revisiting popular episodes from the Wayback Machine. We love going back through these foundational topics. Yeah, and showing you what’s changed. I hope this was at at best, I hope it was at least a little bit entertaining. If you had a long and boring drive and you were listening to us, I hope you got a chuckle and learned something.
Caitlyn Noble:
Man, I don’t want to personally rewind the last 24 months. No, no. Not for a million dollars. No, no, no, no. Um, but as always, make sure you’re subscribed. Our next rewind is coming up next week, and it’s another fan favorite shocker. Shocker. Okay.
Janet Mobley:
Thanks for joining us and see you next time. Thanks, y’all.
Read MoreLess
Janet:
Yeah. So let’s talk about the two big headlines that we’ve been reading and talking about here inside of Fat Cat. And those two headlines come from two different sources. Source number one is the National Association of Home Builders and source number two is the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies. So on one hand you’ve got the Home Builders Association that has this actually honestly a little bit gloomy headline coming out of it. It’s not even a little bit it’s just straight up gloomy. So the National Association of Home Builders said that July of 2025 marked the 16 consecutive months of a falling housing market index. So that means every month for 16 months, the index that they track and that kind of tracks like the health of the home building industry, that index is trending down. And we all know, even though I said a lot of words, if you’re looking at a chart, you want the line to go up to the right, not down. And so the home builders are saying lines going down. And in fact, 38% of builders who were surveyed in July reported that they are actually cutting their prices. And that’s the highest percent of home builders reporting on that since they started tracking it in 2022. So that’s on the kind of the negative side of the coin. Now let’s talk about the flip side of that. So that’s the news coming out of the National Association of Home Builders. If we look at one of my favorite sources, which is Harvard has I don’t even know if it’s called a department. I kind of picture it like a magic building. It’s called the Joint Center for Housing Studies. There’s a whole website that anybody can go and look at, and this center does just a ton of analysis and really solid writing, and they put out infographics all about housing in the United States. And that looks at total housing inventory, who owns it, demographics, trends, what’s being built. Part of that Joint Center for Housing Studies includes some really amazing analysis on the remodeling industry, which is what you guys care about. And in fact, they have, this center has what they call LIRA, L-I-R-A. That is the Leading Indicator of Remodeling Activity. They look at a bunch of numbers, they crunch them, and then they give us a forecast. That forecast is predicting that Q1 of 2026, we’re going to see an uptick in remodeling activity. Praise. So if we put these two thoughts together, I’d love to get your input on this, Caitlin. It kind of makes sense to me. If we’re not building as many homes, people still want to live and eat inside. That means they’re going to be remodeling more. Right. So to me, as a non-economist, non-math nerd. Sure. I just think it’s totally logical that if you see some sort of crunch in housing, you’re going to see an uptick in remodeling.
Caitlyn:
Always.
Janet:
We’ve
Caitlyn:
been doing this for a long time, Janet. I mean, it’s going to ebb and flow, and that’s what we’ve been telling our clients, too, is, yeah, this year, if you’re listening to it, I mean, and you’re shaking your head, like, this has not been the best year in terms of lead generation, you name it, for just digital presence. A lot has been shaken both, you know, out of our control, in our control, And I think it’s funny that these two headlines do conflict. But I also think that it’s something to look forward to and something we’re coaching as we’re preparing for 2026 is do the legwork now. We know prices have dropped. We know things have slowed down. That means you cannot stop marketing. You cannot stop marketing your business. You just you can’t. And I’m tying it, of course, selfishly back to what we do here. Right. But it’s easy to hold back and pull back when things are not going well. well. We’ve seen many, many, many companies make that mistake. This is not the time to do that. Harvard’s telling us,
Janet:
yeah, there’s going to be more interest in remodeling. And in fact, I’m just going to go ahead and segue into the next section and look at, there’s some new lists that have come out and a few surveys that I think sort of bolster our argument here that even though things may look a little gloomy on the house building side, there’s room to be hopeful on the remodeling side so what’s the first um what’s the top of the list here when we’re moving into looking at surveys and some lists that have been published
Caitlyn:
yeah no totally and i’m reflecting back on um i didn’t talk about what i was going to say in the last segment oh do it now but yeah i’ll go ahead and do it so uh my husband works for a fortune 500 company which does help um segue into the next conversation we’re going to have and they do all new builds new home builds. I don’t want to go into too many details. They’re all over the country, right? They’re all over the country, national company, huge company. And they’ve only focused on building homes. And the insulation that goes is one of those things that they do. Yeah, they install
Janet:
insulation. I know Janet can explain it better than what
Caitlyn:
I can. They
Janet:
install, they’re insulation installers, which is really hard to say.
Caitlyn:
Yeah, no. And so like to tie back to these two headlines, they just made an announcement that they have added on a remodeling division to that portion of their company. Because
Janet:
they saw their business with new home construction
Caitlyn:
slow down. 100%. It has. It’s completely slowed down. Again, I can’t give away too much, but they’ve had to go through a lot of different changes as well to adapt to this slower period, which is absolutely accurate. But they’re optimistic about what’s going to come by adding on this remodeling division. So the
Janet:
conversations that you’re having around your kitchen table mirror what we’re seeing. 100%. 100% that we’re talking about on this podcast and that we see at work. Yes,
Caitlyn:
yeah, and whether they’re actually happening or I’m just snooping. So anyway, so back to the surveys, and we talked about the Fortune 500. The Qualified Remodeler, if you’re listening and don’t know, you should know, they come out with a list of the top 500 companies in terms of what they install, dollar volume, how many years they’ve been in business, what associations they’re involved in, certifications, etc. So it’s a really, really solid list of companies that ranks the top remodelers every single year.
Janet:
Yeah, and that list just came out. We love it when that list comes out. Again, listener, if you’re not aware of this list, it’s a great resource. I think it’s a great resource for smaller companies to aspire. You know, you look at some of the bigger companies that maybe you’ve never heard of. Maybe they’re six states away from you. And you can look at their website, look at what they’re doing Maybe learn from companies who’ve blazed a trail ahead of you that are, you know, maybe they’re in the top 15 or 20 or even top 100 of this top 500. We just think it’s such an amazing resource for this industry. We love it when this list comes out. And if you’re not aware of it, go check it out. Go check it out. Qualified Remodeler Top 500. Top
Caitlyn:
500. It comes out every year. You obviously have to submit information that you have to be willing to share with the world. Yeah. But it did report that there were nearly 25 billion remodeling sales. I’m not even saying that the right way, but like there was about… $25
Janet:
billion in remodeling was spent in the United States across 2.2 million completed jobs. Correct,
Caitlyn:
correct. So that’s
Janet:
amazing. That’s a lot of remodeling activity.
Caitlyn:
That’s fantastic. And that’s coming just from those 500 companies who submitted, you know, to be on this list. Correct. So beyond numbers, one of the biggest takeaways is how companies are not just doing single services anymore. If you go to that list, which I hope you do, you’re going to see, I mean, I promise you the top 15, maybe the top 50 are offering multiple services like roofing, siding, windows, baths. It’s not just one and done. And this supports, Janet, a couple of other surveys that we have to share.
Janet:
Well, it does. It doesn’t just support the surveys. It supports some of the trends that we’ve seen in terms of search with the major platforms. But before we get to that, let’s wrap up some of the other surveys. That’s a good point. So we’ve got Qualified Remodeler has published its new list. We’ve got two other headlines that we wanted to share. The American Institute of Architects has recently published a survey that they did with their members. 62% of the architects surveyed report an uptick in adu projects so those are accessory dwelling units yes which to me that kind of goes back to this whole housing thing it does you know if if we’re not building enough houses people got to live somewhere and i think there’s an interest in folks building these accessory dwelling units and renting them out having them be mother-in-law suites correct so if you are a gc and you can build one of these guys maybe there’s an adu in your future
Caitlyn:
yeah so i think that’s super important and like again as an add-on project like as an add-on service
Janet:
yes additions so the other survey i wanted to hit on is house h-o-u-z-z the website we all know and love house surveyed 22 000 homeowners through their website and 54 of those surveyed reported that they did some sort of kitchen or bath project in 2024 so that’s over half now That doesn’t surprise me because you’re asking people who are on house, and they’re probably on house because they’re looking at cabinet colors.
Caitlyn:
Yeah, you’re on Pinterest because you’re trying to plan a wedding. You’re on house because you’re
Janet:
planning a bathroom remodel.
Caitlyn:
Yes, but still. So over half of those people still renovated in 2024.
Janet:
Now, the one thing that also mirrors what we’ve seen is, according to the survey results, the median budget for those projects dropped about $4,000 compared to 2023 so more than half of people are remodeling but they’re spending slightly less on the overall project ties back to what the
Caitlyn:
hba was saying about builders having to cut their prices yes so that goes hand in hand
Janet:
yes
Caitlyn:
um kitchens though remain the most popular
Janet:
yeah on on house even though you know the architects are telling us that they’re seeing an uptick in adus when people are surveyed on house the number one thing that they want to remodel is their kitchen
Caitlyn:
Yep. Followed by primary bathrooms. So just a couple of things to note, like in terms of, are you offering those services? Are you thinking about offering those services? Is there, there’s an interest in the market for you to offer those? There is definitely an interest. That’s a great point. So because we’re digital marketers, we obviously love these surveys. We love these resources. Most of them did come directly from pro remodeler linked back to those specific sources. Anyways, we always recommend reference google search trends um that’s where we live and breathe to make a lot of decisions uh from your seo to your pbc to what’s working on your website etc google search trends it’s a free tool you can use it um go find it what we saw uh diy kitchen and diy bathroom searches so somebody who physically goes to google and searches on terms related to doing it themselves correct are way down from COVID peaks.
Janet:
That doesn’t surprise me. It doesn’t surprise me at all. People were stuck
Caitlyn:
at home. You were at home. You
Janet:
were hating your bathroom. You were hating your kitchen. Yeah, I think to me the theme here with all of this, you know, the news coming out of the home builders, the news coming out of the Harvard Center for, you know, looking at remodeling, there’s still projects to be done. Right. But it is not the peak of COVID. No. Where, I mean, during the peak of COVID, we were all stuck at home or so many people who had maybe never worked from home before are suddenly working from home five days a week.
Caitlyn:
Hating their home.
Janet:
Hating their home. Their kids are going to school from home. If you’re listening to this and you were in business, then you know it. Yeah. You know that you were as busy as you wanted to be.
Caitlyn:
That 2021 year was phenomenal. Yes. Yes.
Janet:
And we were kind of all riding that crest from 2021. Really? Until like mid-2024. What
Caitlyn:
did it say? Since 2022. That was one of the years when the pricing started to decrease. On new home builds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On new home builds. Yeah, home builds, yes. Sorry. I’m talking about remodeling. Yeah, sorry. I thought it was… Anyways. Anyways. Lots of numbers. Lots of numbers.
Janet:
We got a little bit confused. Huge interest. Huge opportunity in the country to make money doing remodeling. That opportunity is still there. But… The leads are going to be a little bit harder to come by. Yes. There’s going to be more competition and your marketing is going to have to be really on point. But the good news is that not as many people are searching on DIY anymore. No. If they’re going to do a project, they want to hire somebody. So that’s kind of like where, you know, that’s our read on the pulse right now. That there’s still opportunities, but, you know, I mean, I’ll just tell a personal story in the middle of COVID it was prices cutting on projects on projects I thought it was on homes 38% of builders reported cutting prices but those are on new home builds just new home builds
Caitlyn:
yes It doesn’t matter. In our show notes, we’ll have the links to all of these resources.
Janet:
I would love it for somebody to come on and argue with us about numbers.
Caitlyn:
I was just reading this like, oh, we’ve just had to cut prices. But anyways, on new home builds. On new home builds. Janet’s going to keep going. We were talking about a personal story about these surveys and the
Janet:
headlines. So, I mean, the way I relate to… The opportunity and strong remodeling industry in COVID, during the middle of COVID, I personally did this more than once. Sitting at a stoplight, I see a truck with a brand on it, some kind of remodeling service that I need with a phone number. I was taking pictures of trucks on the highway and at stoplights and honestly like if I saw somebody in my neighborhood I’d go marching my happy ass up in the middle of their driveway and trying to distract that contractor while he’s working on somebody else’s job because I literally could not get anybody to call me back you know I had gutters that needed to be replaced my driveway needed to be repaved there were things I wanted done I was calling folks I was filling out forms you were nobody was calling me back listener that day is not today homeowners are not tracking you down at a stoplight to get your phone number so there are still leads out there but you’re going to have to work harder to get them you’re going to have to be a better marketer you’re going to have to have an online presence you’re going to have to have multiple lead sources and all news items that we’re looking at and industry analysts are showing that same thing that there’s still demand there but it’s not the rah-rah that it was in 2020 21, 22, and even like really the most of 2023. Yeah. And so when we look at that top 500 list, the companies that we see performing the best are those more mature companies that might have multiple offerings. Their marketing is on point. They might be running TV ads. They’ve got a canvassing game. They’ve got a strong, they did not
Caitlyn:
stop their marketing.
Janet:
They did not stop their marketing. They’ve got a strong call center. It’s, where we see companies struggling the most are those smaller companies that may not have the ability to staff a call center. That’s right. They’re not able to, you know, have that speed to lead reply. They have seen the cost of their third party leads that they’re buying from like Angie’s List and Home Advisor. They’ve seen the cost of those go up and the quality go down. All of those are indicators of a slight cooling in remodeling, but But it doesn’t mean there’s not opportunity there. There’s still opportunity. And some of these studies are indicating that first quarter 2026, it’s going to be a little bit on the uptick.
Caitlyn:
That’s fantastic. So hunker down, hang tight. We’ll let you guys know if any of those stats change.
Janet:
Okay, so let’s talk about platforms. And what do we mean by platforms? Platforms are the big tech companies. Meta, which is Facebook and Instagram. Google, we all know Google. And then AI is not really a platform. It’s technology and there’s a bunch of companies out there, but there’s news to share on the platform. On the digital marketing side
Caitlyn:
of the tools that we are using, that you’re maybe using. Yeah, so Caitlin, what is up with Meta? Well, thank God I was on vacation, to be honest. Yeah, it was super confusing. I think I was it was the Friday right before Labor Day, which is just cruel. And there was a bunch of alerts that went out um through the meta platform advertising platform alerting uh anybody who was advertising like whoa whoa whoa you’ve got to start paying up
Janet:
front for your ads which okay in 25 years what is how long i’ve been doing it you’ve been doing it say 15 years yeah have you ever seen a digital platform ask for advertisers to pay up front
Caitlyn:
god no i mean like i’m sitting here thinking of things that i pay up front for it’s certainly not Facebook ads.
Janet:
No, I don’t even know how that would work because digital ads are based on the activity, whether you’re clicking, whether the ad was displayed to somebody, whether the video was shown. So how do you bill in advance for that?
Caitlyn:
So you can’t, and Meta took that back, undid it, hit the undo button.
Janet:
So they made this big stink the Friday before Labor Day, and then come Tuesday, they were like, Like, psych, we didn’t mean any of that.
Caitlyn:
This is hard. And let’s not do that. We have other things to worry about. So that was a quick thing with meta. I think a takeaway there is, you know, whether it’s you or your agency in the platform and you’re getting alerted from any of these resources that you are paying a lot of money to use, take a beat, pause. A lot of it isn’t as, I’m trying to say this the best way because it’s, it’s not a big of a fire that you think it is. Let the holiday weekend pass.
Janet:
Yeah.
Caitlyn:
If it gets shut down, it won’t. I’m just like, I want your
Janet:
money. They’re not going to shut down your
Caitlyn:
account. Right, right, right, right. And many times you always see this, this is like a tactic that’s just spam and it’s just bad. So always consult with your agency or somebody before you click and commit to anything like giving Facebook money up front because that’s the last thing Facebook needs.
Janet:
Just like you don’t want to get scammed by fake people on Facebook. You don’t want to get scammed by the actual Facebook
Caitlyn:
either. Thank you. Let’s not. Let’s not. Let’s not. Let’s not. Other things with Meta, just to let you know whether you care or you don’t care, they shifted from a min-max spend setting to average spend limits. So this is interesting. I haven’t been as close in the Meta advertising platform, like on the back end, because there’s experts that we have on our team that do that. But that being said, that’s interesting because this is now probably going to hurt performance on peak days, like after storms for roofing contractors. So instead of having those min-max spin settings to just having average, yeah, I’m out here processing out loud kind of the repercussions. I think what it means is
Janet:
you could have your ads stop showing on a day when you really want them to show because it’s being averaged out over the month rather than allowing to have peaks and valleys throughout the month.
Caitlyn:
Right, right. You can’t see my face, but I’m trying to process why they would do that.
Janet:
Yeah, we don’t know.
Caitlyn:
So instead of optimizing for high engagement days like Janet said, it could actually cap spend which reaches you at a limit. So just keep an eye on that. Yeah,
Janet:
your spend could get cut off. Let’s say by, I don’t know, 3 o’clock in the afternoon, when your audience likes to come home after work and that’s when you have historically gotten more engagement absolutely yeah so we don’t know what’s what’s up with we don’t know what the hell’s going on with meta but like they made this weird announcement last week and now they’ve got this shift from min budget settings to average which we think could hurt i mean we have roofers who tell us like hey look at the weather totally if there’s an ice storm coming oh yeah you know let’s let’s run ads. Let’s, um,
Caitlyn:
I’ll, I’ll say this. And I, I mean, we recommend meta to clients with, it’s, it, it’s not, it doesn’t answer everything. It’s not the cure. No, it’s not going to be your end all be all. It’s part of the whole solution. It’s part of the whole solution. And so like, we’re saying what’s up with meta. If you’re on the fence about meta right now, I mean, I don’t think you’re missing a lot. Um, yeah, it’s that, I guess that’s the headline. So,
Janet:
Yeah. I just, we like to follow what’s going on with the platforms. Yeah, totally. And I kind of chuckled with that whole, like.
Caitlyn:
That’s insane.
Janet:
Let’s make a big deal out of it, and then let’s turn around three days later and go, never mind.
Caitlyn:
I don’t even mean it. What time on Friday? That’s just terrible.
Janet:
Yeah, right before Labor Day weekend.
Caitlyn:
Okay, something else that’s really fun, fun, quote unquote fun, that we hear a ton from, and this is critical. This is so, so, so, so critical. Review management. is dominating across industries. This isn’t news. You guys know this. If you’re, again, a remodeling contractor and you don’t have reviews, I am quite unsure how you’re in business. Not to just be… Yeah, but
Janet:
I think the headline is the platforms, specifically Google, are taking it even a step further. Even more serious. So we know that reviews have been critical to service businesses for years. Have to be. But… There’s a new study coming out of Yext, Y-E-X-T, which is another industry analyst that we follow. Yes. This group studied 8.7 million Google searches to see how local business profiles, those Google business profiles, how they show up across different industries. And what they found is that if you are slow to respond to reviews that can negatively impact whether or not your business shows up in searches on maps and for that Google local business
Caitlyn:
profile. while so I’m going to say that again because yes I went on a riff about how important it is to get reviews but now not only is it important to get those reviews you have to respond to those and quickly in a timely fashion right like very fast
Janet:
so this what this what this study is telling us and what’s even weirder about it is it seems to vary by region yeah by region so in the northeast let’s say you’re a painter and you’re in Connecticut. If you take two weeks to respond to somebody that leaves you a review, that’s not going to have as big of an impact on whether or not your painting business shows up when someone searches for a painter. It’s not going to have as big of an impact as if you were in Atlanta. So in the South and the West, if you are slow to respond to reviews, that could make it so that your Google business profile just doesn’t even show up. when people are searching for your services. It’s crazy. And then in the Midwest, what the survey found is that even if you get a review on the weekend and you’re slow in responding, it can hurt your online visibility. Yeah, that’s insane. So we’ll put links to all this stuff in the show notes. I was frankly surprised at this. We’ve always known reviews are critical. We preach it to our clients, get reviews. The news headline here is, Not only get the reviews, but you have to respond to them, both the positive and the negatives, and you have to do it lickety split.
Caitlyn:
Lickety split. I think the regional side of things and the industry side of things is weird. And I would take that with a grain of salt. Because, I mean, this was published, I just looked, like August 15th, 2025. Google’s going to do Google. They’re going to change what they’re going to change. But please, please, please, please respond to those reviews. We at Fat Cat have several tools that… offer a solution to respond to those quickly um but say you take
Janet:
that task off your plate
Caitlyn:
yeah that totally can take that task off your plate um so one reach out to your agency see if they have a a tool that to help you responding to reviews quickly because that’s so critical um if you don’t work with an agency you know it’s not in the budget right now assign a dedicated responder like i don’t know how many reviews you’re getting a day but just make sure you responses.
Janet:
Yeah, maybe it’s your office manager, the person who answers your phones, or even the person that does your bookkeeping.
Caitlyn:
I have the joy somehow of receiving an email every single time one of our clients gets a review. So you can have a setting that that person also gets a review or gets an email and they can just click.
Janet:
Go ahead and have some templated responses that they can copy and paste, make minor edits to because what this search engine journal report is telling us is that the timeliness in your response impacts your online visibility yeah absolutely um
Caitlyn:
were we going to mention something about
Janet:
yeah well there was something else here i’m looking at the show notes um you know while we’re doing this this roundup the summer roundup of like things that we’ve happened seen happen with the platform so we know that meta did the weird thing with billing google is doing something where they rank you based on how quickly you respond to reviews And then the third thing that we were going to mention is something kind of interesting that we’ve seen with AI-driven search. So this is either going on something like perplexity or chat GPT where you say like, hey, what’s a reputable exterior remodeling contractor in the Raleigh, North Carolina area or however you phrase that search. Those AI-powered search engines are now favoring companies that have multiple solutions more than they’re favoring companies that only do one thing or specialize in one thing. So for example, if you had a roofing company and the only thing you do is roofing, you don’t do windows, you don’t do gutters, and that’s what your website says, like everything on your website is about roofing and about nothing else. For a homeowner that’s using an AI search engine your company is not going to show up when another company that could be newer, younger, not as reputable, not as established, but they do window replacement, they build decks, they do siding and roofing. Because they offer more services, the AI bots are recommending those companies more so than these one-solution companies.
Caitlyn:
And let’s bring that back home, and maybe I’ll reference the right stat here. Isn’t that what the survey was saying? That the companies that are doing the best, I’m like making, like summarizing everything, the companies that are performing the best are offering multiple services.
Janet:
Yeah, that was one of the findings that came out of that Harvard study. Harvard study, yes.
Caitlyn:
So
Janet:
like that
Caitlyn:
tracks. Yeah. So not only is Google preferring you or any AI search. The AI generated search. AI meaning, like I was thinking Gemini AI. Yes, okay. OpenAI, Perplexity, whatever you’re using on search for AI. Those AI
Janet:
summaries, wherever you’re seeing them.
Caitlyn:
Your business is showing up if you have multiple services offered. But
Janet:
not showing up as strongly if you specialize in one service. It’s so interesting. I’m frankly kind of curious about… I mean, we have had such amazing relationships over the past 10 years with companies that only do bathrooms. Yeah. They just do…
Caitlyn:
Yeah.
Janet:
I mean, in those companies, like we’re still seeing those companies perform very strongly right now. So I’m just, I mean, it’s a little bit of a head scratcher. Like how does that AI preference for contractors that offer multiple services, what does that mean for one day bathroom contractors? I honestly don’t have an answer to that. Right.
Caitlyn:
And if you’re looking, I mean, we, I mean, I guess the thing we, I’m not going to riff too much on it, but I guess if you are, are looking for a bathroom remodeling company through AI. I would just be interested to see what shows up.
Janet:
Yeah, I don’t know.
Caitlyn:
I know. That’s what we’re, like, I know. Jane’s looking at me like, let’s, this is, yeah.
Janet:
Yeah, I mean, so my take on that is, again, so Caitlin, what you warned people when we were talking about meta-changing their billing practice, if you get some random email, before you freak out on any news item related to the internet, please take a beat. Please take a beat. It’s changing so fast, and yes, we’re seeing this kind of trend with AI generated search results. But at this moment, I don’t know that those are the predominant search results. People are still using Google the quote unquote old way. Yes. So your Google business profile is still king for now. Yes. As of September the 3rd, 2025. Yes. But it’s just something to watch. Yeah. It’s something to watch and it’s a rapidly evolving story. so
Caitlyn:
bottom line for the fall I think this was a good long episode lots of updates lots of opinions whether they’re right or wrong you know there are opinions and
Janet:
yeah
Caitlyn:
digital marketing is going to change we’re reading the news and chatting about it yeah we’re chatting about it I think Janet already nailed it you gotta make sure to work on your review game no matter what you have to set up a system to generate reviews and respond to those same day if not faster
Janet:
yeah and you know if we’re if we’re looking at the information coming out of um that harvard center for joint housing studies the prognostication is that remodeling is due for an uptick and a stronger year-over-year performance starting q1 next year yes which is what four months away um so keep marketing keep fighting for those jobs a little bit of sunshine might be uh yeah come into remodeling it will while home builders could still be struggling
Caitlyn:
yeah
Janet:
absolutely um well as always we’re here um yeah we’d love to hear feedback if you found this episode helpful or if you’d rather go back us to go back to talking about like one tactic at a time this is sort of a news roundup
Caitlyn:
news our first news roundup hopefully not the last um but as always please share this with your friend in the industry subscribe it’s so easy to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast so you do get notified I get a notification every Wednesday morning on my phone that a new digital marketing for contractors podcast has released so you can get that too if you subscribe to us and please speaking of reviews leave us a review that’s all we have until next time until next time y’all thank you thank you
Outro: Digital marketing for contractors is created by Fat Cat Strategies. For more information, visit fatcatstrategies.com.