Episode 030: Special Guest: Cory Getz, Founder of Unrushed Honest Quality and JHC In a Box

My name is Janet. I am the founder of Fat Cat Strategies. My co host is. Hey, I’m Caitlin. I’m head of client services at Fat Cat Strategies. And we are stoked because we have Cory with us today. Cory is the owner of Unrushed Honest Quality in Indianapolis, Indiana, and he is a James Hardy roofing contract siding contractor and roofing contractor.

And Cory, why don’t you introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your business and tell us about JHC in a box.

Yeah, so, ah, my name is Cory Getz. Um, I’m a contractor out of central Indiana. We do a lot of, a lot of siding, windows, roofing and gutters. Uh, put a lot of hardy board up. And um, yeah, um, I have a consulting company where I work with other contractors to help them grow, uh, their hardy businesses.

And so, yeah, glad to be here today. Glad to talk to you a little bit about digital marketing.

Yeah, well, actually we’re gonna twist it around a little bit. We’re going to talk about digital marketing, but I want to hear about the world from the perspective of the owner operator. We obviously are partnering with companies like you to manage your digital marketing. But we know that what we do is always in support of your business goals and we’re only successful if you’re able to meet those business goals.

And so I think it would be really interesting for our listeners to kind of hear like the backstory about uhq, uh, like a brief history of the company. How did you get started? Why did you decide to go out on your own? So if you could kind of give us like the thumbnail sketch of uhq.

Uh, yeah.

So, I mean, I guess it all starts. I grew up on a livestock farm in northern Indiana, and we did everything ourselves there, including our own construction work. And so I put on my first roof when I was 13. And when, uh, I was 15, I started working for my buddy’s dad who was a contractor.

He did a lot of sighting and so I worked for him for Many years I, uh, went down to Katrina when Katrina went on, went um, to Indy for a large hail storm, I think it was 2006. Kind um, of travel around and done different things over the years and ended up going to college at night.

And during the last couple years of college I worked for the largest residential roofing contractor in the US at the time. Time. And um, I was kind of over being a contract or overworking for contractors and I was actually getting ready to go work for Amazon and a large hail storm hit my neighborhood and all my neighbors were like, cory, we know you, we trust you, we want you to do our roofs.

And at that point I was pretty much done at the company I was at. And so I decided that I would take on this endeavor of helping my neighbors. And uh, wow. And so it all started with that. And so when I started uhq, I was like, well, what am I gonna name it?

I was like, I want to be a different kind of contractor than, uh, many contractors I’ve worked for over the years. I didn’t want to do any high pressure sales. I wanted to take my time when I was doing the work. I wanted to be honest, which there’s a lot of dishonesty in the market, in the industry.

And uh, I wanted to deliver quality work. And so, so that’s where UHQ stands for is unrest, Honest Quality. We’ll take our time, be honest, give our customers a quality job. And uh, so that was back in 2015. So we’re coming up on 10 years in business now. And um, it’s been good.

It’s almost like, ah, the contractor life chose you.

Right, I know, yeah.

You didn’t have contractor life. It chose you.

That’s right. I tried to get out, I tried to go to college, got my business degree and I just couldn’t get away. And um, you know, good thing there’s a bigger plan out there than what I have because otherwise I’d probably be in trouble.

So you’re 10 years in. If you could go back in time to that first year. So Hailstorm, your neighbors are asking for help. You put UHQ together. Yeah. Uh, the version of Cory now talking to Cory 10 years ago. What are some of the things that you would tell that version of Cory from a business perspective of what it’s like to own and operate a contracting business?

Yeah, it’s kind of a loaded question. But no, I think that’s a really good one. I think, and I hear this from like a lot of other contractors when I was at that point I just wanted to. I just wanted to become a huge company. I wanted to have, you know, a ton of revenue.

I wanted to do, you know, tens of millions of dollars in revenue and I wanted to grow and I wanted to take over my market. And I, um, had a lot of ambition then. I still do have ambition, uh, for sure. But, you know, I would have. I had people give me the advice that I’d give myself now, which was, Cory, stay as small as you can, as long as you can.

Really. Not that you don’t want to do more revenue, but, you know, had a lot of ambition to like, get big quick. And I, um, wish I would have taken a little more time to research some of the things that I’ve done over the years that didn’t work and, um, and just take a little more time to, to want to get big.

Um, you know, it’s like, you know.

Were these other contractors telling you to stay as small as you can for as long as you can, or are different from different as much?

The contractors is like suppliers and manufacturers that were like, hey, I know you’re in a hurry. You want to keep hiring all these sales guys and you want to do all these things. But, you know, it’s like, it sounds easier than what it is, which is very true. And the more you kind of take your time mastering each part of it, the easier it gets to do.

But it all takes time at the end of the day, so those.

Go ahead. Oh, I mean, you, you were gonna. Those first five years, like, I mean, what were some of the mistakes that. I mean, we all learn from mistakes. It’s how I’ve learned everything. I do it wrong first and then I do it wrong again, and then I do it wrong again, and then.

And then I might start paying attention.

Yeah, yeah. Pain and.

Yeah.

And money and all the good things. Um, like those first five years, what.

Were some of the biggies?

Looking back, I mean,

as a contractor, the biggest thing was not, um, putting enough time into the systems and the processes, making sure that everything was on paper, and there were like, there was good training for the staff. Um, I think that was one of the, one of the big ones, you know, um, you know, just putting together a well thought out plan versus.

I think this is going to work. You know, I think this is what my competitor is doing. I’m going to just do that. And, um, you know, so that’s, you know, always a challenge trying to, like I said, trying to grow too fast without the right systems and processes, taking my time to get to know things a little bit better and just, you know, gaining experience.

I worked for, I’d worked for contractors for many years when I went into business for myself. Um, but it’s not the same as once you are the business owner, it’s a little different.

So, um, totally different perspective.

Yeah, I wish I probably would have, you know, one other thing is I wish I would have, I think, marketing. I, I, it took me many years to get more into marketing. You know, I’m a big Tony Robbins guy. And one of the things he says is, like, if you want to grow your business, get good at marketing.

And that was always a big challenge early on for me was I just wanted somebody else to do it for me. And I told myself this story that was like, oh, you don’t know what you’re doing, Cory. And instead of saying, like, how am I gonna learn? Right. Put a lot more effort into learning that type of thing early.

Um, building relationships, I think that’s another big one is, um, I didn’t spend. I wish I would have built more.

Relationships along the way, like suppliers or vendors or.

Anybody. I mean, just everybody, you know, I think sometimes in business, you, you know, at the end of the day, you’ve got to make money, and so you kind of lose track sometimes of like, all the relationships that can pay off for you. It could be suppliers, you know, I think customers, you know, like, I think, uh, that’s one of the biggest ones is like, building those, those relationships with the customers.

I used to be really like, well, I’m doing a good job for them. And, um, you can do a good job for a customer and then not necessarily feel that way. And it has to do with building those relationships with the customer. Customers and. And realizing they are, you know, going to end up being typically one of my best lead sources out there.

And I wish I would have nurtured some of which. We did great work. We stood behind our work always. But, um, I wish we would have put a little more time into building the relationships with the customers, especially suppliers. Is good. I’ve always done a pretty good job, I think, at the supply houses.

I did a podcast with one of the guys, and he’s like, cory knows everybody’s name in our supply house. Um, which was true. Which is true for most of them. Manufacturers, um, are good, but. Yeah, um, you know, and I think the other place you can spend as much time getting to know your employees, too.

Um, and that’s another big one. I’ve always done pretty good there, but, you know, I think there’s always room for improvement.

So JHC in a box, that’s relatively new. So you’ve been doing UHQ for 10 years.

Yeah.

That seems like that should keep you busy enough running a successful business.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh, to branch out.

Steve said that to me the other day. He’s like, cory, why are you even doing this? You know, like, you have Jay, you have uhq, you have a success, successful construction company. Why is it you want to go start jhc, which is basically to help other contractors build lucrative businesses.

And, you know, I enjoy helping other people, you know, get better. And that’s what it’s all about is helping contractors save themselves years of headaches. Uh, time, money. You know, there’s tons of statistics out there that will say, you know, a new contractor, uh, 80. 80 to 90% will fail in their first two, two to five years.

So, you know, I just want to help some of these guys who seem like good people, um, maybe grow their business a little bit faster or grow it in a way that, you know, helps them, um, not. Not fail, ultimately. Um, um, so it’s just. Just all about wanting to help other people get better.

Um, um, just try to share some of the knowledge that I’ve learned over the years.

And the jhc. James Hardy, Contractor in a box, Right?

Not technically, no. I mean, that. I mean, it would make sense. I mean, I. But, uh, yeah. So when I started uhq, uhq, it has a JHC kind of in a box. And so that’s where it came from, was the logo came out of my construction companies. But that’s what our customers used to say to us all the time.

They’re like, are you J? Is that J? They would miss the, uhq, they would read it as JC and they’d be like that standard James Hardy Contractor.

I thought it was James Hardy Contractor this whole time.

No, I mean, you would think it is, but it’s on your uhq. So basically it’s. It came out of my point. It’s the systems and processes that allow us to, to price, uh, sell and install Hardy board. Well, uh, yeah.

Okay. Wow. Just this whole time we’ve been walking around going, it’s James Hardy Contractor. Yeah. I mean, the colors, everything. No, so that’s amazing.

And, you know, I guess that’s good. I guess that it gives us the image off that we’re looking for. But yeah, technically it doesn’t stand for, uh, anything. Especially according to my attorney who was like, you can’t that.

So, yeah, you can’t name that from the record. It’s people looking.

No, it’s all good. It’s all good.

So if you need home improvement contractor advice in terms of sales processes, etc, go to Cory, no matter what you sell. Um, and I think it was pretty cool. Cory had us on his podcast JHC in a box talking about marketing. We have worked with Cory for five years now, which is amazing.

Yes. Um, to flies. Time flies. To tell a little bit of that story just to y’all listeners all know. Um, it was, I think the beginning of 2020, about right before COVID but. We didn’t know Covid was coming. No, January 2020. Yeah, January 2020. Uh, we flew out to Indy for a James Hardy educational.

Yeah, it was an educational. Right. Maybe 10, 15 companies in the area. And Janet presented. We went to dinner with Cory. Um, you know, and I think we just decided to. That things were, were there and a. Match was made and there was a. Good, there was good chemistry there.

Cory told that story to us and we were passionate about it. Um, and Cory, I know you’ve worked with other agencies before too. I mean, so. Yeah. So on that note, like, yes, we’ve been helping you for five years, but you’ve been in business for years on the marketing and sales front.

Right. If you go back to some of those early days, what were you doing those first one to two years to generate leads? And, and how did you track them? And you know, did you, were you running all the sales appointments? Did you have another sales. Like, what were the early, early days looking like?

So early early days is. I had, um, we focused a little more on roofing early on and we had a couple sales, uh, people that were door to door. And so they initially were Selling a lot of the insurance. And then I was the one selling the retail. I was the one who kind of pushed us into the hardy side of things.

Um, a lot of our marketing early on was word of mouth. Um, like I said, you know, we did 6, $700,000 in revenue in the first 6 months just from, like, my neighbors and the people that we would solicit. So, um, a lot of that, we put up, you know, a billboard in the neighborhood that I live in.

Okay, a billboard in a neighborhood?

Yeah, yeah. It was like, we kind of was very city area. And there was like this nice billboard that was really inexpensive. And so I, like, put my logo up there. And I remember, like, uh, you know, all these companies when you start up in business are like, hey, you need a website, you need a website.

And so it was like, oh, uh, I really don’t want to, you know, have a bad website. And so I was like, so timid to even get a website early on. And it took me like six months to a year. And I promised that I would not let it be bad.

And it was awful, you know, it was terrible.

What way was it awful?

Um.

Well, did you know it was awful? Like, yeah, like, awful could mean a lot.

It was very cookie cutter. And like, it was not like, well put together. And. And it goes back to, like, I wasn’t always like, great at marketing back then. And so it was like going off of like, some of what, like I had to contribute to it. And so then it was like what I was contributing maybe wasn’t like top tier, but like, they were just more there to like, give me cookie cutter.

Website wasn’t really SEO loaded in any way. So it was just like the story I had typed up. And, um, you know, with.

No, you had to provide all the content.

Yeah, exactly. And. And then I, uh, remember that first website and they, you know, uh, they owned the domain. They classic. We talked about the website. It’s. Then by the time it was like, oh, yeah, like, we’re not doing business anymore, then, um, it was like, oh, you own all of this.

Oh, this is terrible for me. And then I had to like, start all over.

Uh, so you couldn’t buy the domain from them or you had to go find another domain.

That one, I think I had to go get another domain. I ended up getting it back like a year or two later once they kind of let it expire.

Right.

But they initially that was like their poll to try to like, well, when you want to come back, then we’ll own Your domain.

I hate that about this industry. I mean, we are in this industry, and I’ve always hated that. It’s like a play to hold your customers hostage at gunpoint. And I think it’s nonsense. And you didn’t know. You, like. You don’t know to ask those questions. Yeah.

Uh, you definitely didn’t know up front. I had no idea when we went into it, like, what I was getting into. You know, they make it sound so good, like, we’ll buy the domain for you. We’ll make it so easy for you.

Yeah.

Then it’s like, oh, wait, we’re breaking up. And it’s like, make sure you know. It’s like, make sure you have a prenup when you get into these agreements so you know, like, what’s happening when you leave them. Because you just don’t. You don’t know what you don’t know early on.

Right.

You know, I always try to relate it to something, um, that I know absolutely nothing about. So you. You mentioned growing up on a farm. I don’t know anything about tractors. If I had to go buy a tractor, I would be subject to whatever the salesperson told me. And so I think contractors, when they go to a marketing company, they don’t know to even ask the question, who’s going to own the domain.

They might not really even understand the difference between a domain name and their website. So, I mean, I don’t know what to do to fix that. But we. We try to educate them. Um, we try. I mean, one of the reasons we’re doing this podcast is to educate people.

And we’ve got a bunch of episodes about, hey, contractors, you should own all of your stuff. Don’t let your agency own it. All right, so those.

And that was like, a national company, too. It’s like this huge company, and you’re 100% right. Like, that was their place. Like, later, come out. Oh, well, they knew they were getting a new guy. He didn’t know what he was doing. And it was their way of like, yeah, this is how we.

Yeah, you. You’re gonna come. And they would tell you after you break up with them, they’re like, oh, you’ll. You’ll be coming back. Yeah, they do it real friendly.

What are they going to do with all these domain names that are associated with businesses they don’t own? Anyway, that’s the story.

So we. We obviously try to educate on. I know I want to look at Janet when I talk, but she’s like, talking to your mic. I’ll look at you. We always are trying to educate on, you know, owning. Owning your stuff. If, you know, just own it. No matter what agency you work with, own it.

Um, have logins, of course. What about on, like, back to, like, the beginning? And this is something we always are trying to encourage and when we choose other clients to work with is, you know, are you on a CRM? M. Do you use a CRM? Um, were you. What.

What were you using? Like, I mean, you don’t have to drop names, but I mean, how quickly did you realize, were you a spiral.

Net bound Notebook that first $600,000, or did you not?

Ah, I came from a. Like I said, I’d worked for the largest contractor in the US at the time. I saw a lot of value in, uh, a CRM system, and I. I went with acculinx. I still have Accu links. I don’t mind, uh, plug in them, I think.

Yeah, I think they’re really good. I mean, there’s, you know, there’s pros and cons. There’s obviously other ones, like a job, Nimbus, or the service type. Yeah, it’s like, they’re all as good as I think you put into it because you have to kind of build them out. And so, like, yeah, early on, I.

I had. I. I was so fortunate to make that decision pretty early on where it was like, hey, I’m gonna get something that’s gonna track it. Um, but it only tracks it as well as you set it up to track it as well. So, I mean, there’s definitely some room for improvement over time.

Where it was like, okay, we have a CRM. We’re tracking it. But then I think, you know, I think over time, you kind of, like, learn, and you’re like, oh, I. Either I’m not really tracking this analytic or I’m not being specific enough. You know, I think, like, with Legion.

It’s like, uh, you know, it’s like, okay, where did the lead come from? Well, like, you know, and I know you, you guys can speak about this better than I can, but it’s like, well, it could come from Google. Well, where is it coming from in Google? Is it Google local service ads?

Is it a Google Ad? Is it your organic Google, Your business profile? Your Google business profile. Right. Um, so that was another place that I lucked out early though is I created my own Google Google business profile, which is another area I’ve heard so many contractors. Yes. Have somebody else set that up for them and then they don’t own their Google business profile?

I luckily did. That was one like, one thing I, I got lucky on, I guess. Um, but there were multiple companies that are like, we’ll set it up for you. I mean, over the years, Google will.

Let other people set up Google business profiles anymore.

Like back in the day.

Back in the day. But like these days, what we’re hearing from clients is that Google has changed where you have to like take a video of your door to your office and you have to turn around and get a street sign and you have to stand on one foot and you have to say the pledge of allegiance and then you have to promise your firstborn and they might authenticate your Google business profile.

But, but the fact that you had yours from the get go and owned it, you were able to start building those reviews and you didn’t have to worry about losing those and transferring them. So that was a huge win.

Yeah. If we could like plug the education front for a second. Um, what we’ve seen. And again, like, I think Google has made some changes where it’s more difficult to let other people, quote, unquote, own your business profile. But one thing that we’ve seen is Cory, say you’ve got like a part time office manager.

We’ll invent a name, let’s call her Stacy. And you’re like, hey, Stacy, sign me up for this thing. And she does it with her Gmail address. Well, then she decides to move to Costa Rica. Oh yeah. And now Stacy’s gone. And so is the login to your Google business profile.

We see stuff like that all the time where owners will delegate a task to their cousin, to their brother’s wife, to their marketing agency, to their marketing agency. But it’s not just to the marketing agency. They’ll delegate it to somebody else. And then years go by and they can’t even get a login anymore because the relationship with that person they delegated the task to, that person has exited stage left.

I don’t know if you had anything like that.

Yeah, I mean, over the years, uh, I don’t remember a specific one, but I. I do recall instances where it’s like, okay, you have somebody set something up in your business for you, and you do. Like you said, you think you’re delegating. And then it’s like, oh, I need access to that.

How do we get in that? And then it’s like, oh, well, hit forget password. And then it’s like, it starts sending it to somebody else, and you’re like, how do we get there?

Exactly?

Um, so I love the story of this journey, and, like, we’re throwing in bits of education as we go through it. Um, and we talked about some initial marketing mistakes. You know, you built a website because somebody told you to build a website. You had to build. Go, probably rebuild it.

Go start from scratch. Scratch.

Many times. Many times. I can’t even. Like, I was trying to think about that earlier. I was like, how many websites have we had now? And it’s quite a few. At least. At least four or five. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, when did you decide, I guess, that, you know, beyond word of mouth, you had to up your lead generation game? And how did you start learning? I. I loaded question. But how did you start learning about other ways to generate leads? And when did you know it was time?

Yeah. Um, you know, I think we were always wanting more leads. I think that’s like, every contractor is like, I just. I just need more leads. Right. And, you know, you would.

Oh, yeah.

You know, you get. You get linked up with the. The manufacturers. You know, we’re linked up with, like, Owens Corning, and it was like, hey, hook us up with some leads. And then, uh, oh, we don’t really have many leads, or we give those to our platinum contractors. And, you know, Hardy would give us some leads, but they would be very clear.

Like, you got to figure it out. And so you kind of get to this point where it’s like, well, if I want to grow my business, I need more leads. And so it definitely got to a point where it was like, it was just, uh. I think it was always a constant where it’s like, I always knew I wanted more leads, and I.

I always had this huge ambition of, like, growing the business, but it’s like, how do you do it? Is like a whole nother story, especially when you’re getting started, because, you know, people will be like, oh, we’ll run some Pay per click ads. And it’s like, oh, okay. And you try that and then it doesn’t really work.

Or you hire these companies that promise like, I’m gonna, you know, for 500 bucks a month or three grand, I’m gonna get you X amount of leads. And, and then they don’t really deliver or they deliver a bunch of leads and none of them will set an appointment. Um, m.

So it was always like, how do we get more leads? But it’s like how to do it is always been, I guess, one of.

The toughest challenges and the landscape changes all the time. Did you do the third party lead aggregation?

Oh yeah, yeah. I’ve done the home advisors, Angie’s thing. And um, you know, it was good. Or you know, that was one way like when we were younger as a company to bump up some leads real quick. Um, now there’s always Practice your sales pitch. Well, great way to practice the sales pitch.

You know, you’ll, you’ll get more competitive real quick because, you know, it’s not like a referral. You know, they’re going to three to five contractors and then you gotta figure out how to win, um, which, which is good. I mean it’s a good thing to do, but it can get expensive and it can be, be a real challenge.

So.

So for our listeners who don’t know, we were a guest on Cory’s podcast and I’m going to refer back to something we talked about then on that other episode, Cory, you do something that I think is. So, um, it’s kind of simple and wholesome and inventive. Tell us a story about.

I think you told me you were like somebody’s kitchen and there’s like a, a school calendar on the refrigerator and you asked to sponsor it. Like, tell us a little bit about, uh, what you’re doing in your local community with schools, with sports teams, with kids, organizations, non digital, non digital.

That’s helping generate. It’s it and hard to trace those leads. But we definitely think it’s part of the formula.

Absolutely.

Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, you kind of start to learn that, you know, sponsoring the local, you know, baseball team, you know, it’s like if, you know, like, like Hardy describes their target customer as Christine. And Christine is, you know, 35 to 55. Uh, she’s got two kids.

And so you start to realize, you know, one of the most common demographics that you help as a contractor or families.

Right.

So it’s like, you know, one time we’re at somebody’s house, like well, hey, do you do your kids. Oh, they play softball or they play baseball or whatever it is. And then it gives you that opportunity to say, hey, could I sponsor their team? And most of the time, they’re, like, really excited about it, and then they’ll start to pass you around the team.

Once you’ve sponsored the team, they always appreciate that. It’s definitely always school calendars. You can sponsor, um, different sporting events. It’s just a good way to really target the communities that you want to be in. We’re really focused on the neighborhoods. Well, if you want to be in a good neighborhood, you’re ideally going.

To be a good school system. And so it’s always definitely a good way to. To get involved with the local community and show support and, you know, they always appreciate it. So.

And. And that typically is, like, a very affordable play, isn’t it, like, to add to your marketing mix.

Yeah, like 500 bucks for a season. And, you know, they vary. You know, I do stay away from the travel teams, um, because I don’t think there’s as much value in those. I try to stick to, like, a local, you know, team. And you can even just go to some of the, um, some of the.

I don’t want to call them arenas, but, like, the fields, they have these different, like, field areas. You can just sponsor that field area and they’ll put up one of your banners, uh, as well. It’s another good way to do it.

That’s awesome.

That’s.

That is awesome. Um, kind of glancing through the questions here. Go ahead.

I mean, another thing, educating, like, leads. All the different ways to generate leads, keep your website up, keep your Google business profile up and running. Um, something that I think we work with our clients on and, you know, try to educate as well, is calculating those number of leads you need and setting goals.

You know, I mean, can we, as your agency, be responsible for generating, you know, 20 leads a month with this ad budget? Are. How are you. Are you coming up with those numbers, Cory? I mean, like.

Yeah. How do you set your KPI?

Yeah, yeah.

Um, yeah, I mean, I do. I, you know, I worked with Breakthrough Academy at one point to kind of set ideally what we would like. You know, it’s a very challenging thing. You help us do that at Fat Cat. You know, that’s very helpful. You guys have, um, a whole spreadsheet.

We love a spreadsheet.

Um, you know, and, you know, it’s just one of those things where, like, you know, if you’re gonna. If you’re gonna do it, you gotta kind of work backwards. Right? It’s like, what’s our goal?

Yep.

You know, and, you know, it’s what makes it so tough is month to month, we get swings in revenue. So it’s like, you know, yeah, I want a hundred. I want a hundred thousand dollars this month and, you know, 100,000 next month, whatever. And you get to, you know, if you do a hundred thousand every month, it’s $1.2 million.

Well, that sounds great.

Right?

But it’s never that even.

But it’s never a hundred. 100, 100, 100. Right. You’re going to have, you know, 250 this month, you’re going to have 50 another, you know, things like that that are going to make it go all over the board. And so it does become an average. Um, and then there’s seasonality to the leads, as you know very well.

And some months are better than other months. Um, different things go on. Like last year was, uh, election year. And, you know, October, November kind of slowed down, and the ad cost goes up because they’re advertising. But ideally, you know, the, the ultimately it’s, hey, what do I want my revenue to be?

And then what was my average job size last year? Average ticket, how many jobs I need? And then we can take our closing rate and we can, you know, factor in the closing rate. So if we’re selling one out of three jobs, then 33 closing rate, 100 jobs. And I need 300 leads.

333 leads, right.

Or 333 appointments.

Yeah, yeah.

So you gotta have more leads to get those appointments.

Well, that’s true, too. Yeah. What’s the lead slippage rate and, um, things like that. So, yeah, you’re 100. Right. You know, however many jobs, how many appointments, what’s your lead slippage, and how many leads will you need for that? So it’s definitely, um. You know, it sounds good on paper when you say, like, this is the formula.

But, like, does it actually work that way? Like, no, it’s gonna average over the year. You know, it’s just like. Right. Some jobs we make more money on than other jobs, but we’re looking for an average, um, you know, gross profit or net profit.

Do you plan your marketing budget based off. How do you plan your marketing budget? Let’s just go with that.

Oh, here. I mean, uh, I try, you know, I try. I try to base it off of the revenue I want to create.

That’s exactly.

So if I gross. Yeah, because it’s tough because you want to say, well, I want my. You know, a lot of guys are 5 to 10%, who they are, what they’re, what they’re doing. Um, but 5%, it’s pretty decent ad spend. If you’re doing, you know, two, three million dollars a year, that’s a fair amount of money to put into it.

But if you put 5% of last year’s revenue in, then you can’t expect to grow. In my opinion. I think that you gotta put 5% of what you want to do.

Sing it, brother. Cory.

So. So it, it’s tough because, you know, it’s the old adage, you gotta Spend money to make money. And when it comes to running ads and generating leads, you’ve got to invest. And it’s not like a slot machine where it’s like, okay, I’m gonna put 100 bucks in this machine.

Okay. Oh, it didn’t pay out. I’m going to the next machine. And it’s like, it doesn’t really work that way. There’s, um, so many factors in marketing and, um, so you gotta. Gotta learn it.

Use. You do use like a percent of your goal revenue.

That’s generally what I mean. That’s what I shoot for. I shoot for. I won’t say it’s like perfect because I always overspend. Um, you know, like, we’ve sponsored, um, some golf courses that we do a lot of work around. I just spent some money doing that. Um, you know, the schools, you know, it’s like, yes, there’s generally a budget, but I think sometimes there’s like, hey, here’s this opportunity, right?

You don’t want to let it pass you by.

Yeah. What do I think I can get back on this? And so it’s not. Not a perfect percentage. I should probably be a little more on it. But like I said, I think. I think you gotta spend money to make money.

So within that percentage, let’s just throw some numbers out there. Let’s say Your target is 8% of your target revenue. Well, then that gives you a number, whatever that number is.

Right.

How do you divide that up between your, your sponsorships of teams? Do you have like a 50, 50? Do you have an 80, 20?

Or.

Or are you just kind of feeling it as you go?

Like, m. What I mean, a lot.

Of do tv, radio, digital sponsorships, field marketing, shows, shows.

And, and I don’t really get, you know, I don’t know that we’re big enough for the tv, radio side of it, but like, um, or price should. I’ve heard some good things on returns from radio in recent past, but, um. But yeah, I mean, there’s definitely a split. I mean, a lot of ours is focused towards, uh, online marketing.

Like I would say probably like 70 would be my. I’d have to look at the numbers, but I say 70. Majority of it is going to like online spending because that’s where the leads come from. Whether it’s like our website, our SEO, pay per click, um, Facebook ads, um, you know, there’s just a lot of, A lot of online research going on to where people find the contractor and, um, just kind of more of the age that we’re in from my viewpoint.

Yeah.

So I try to put a majority of my money there.

I just like to share those sort of like, big picture rule of thumb, because I get asked these questions, you know, how do you set a budget? And if you start with, all right, your, your revenue goal is $10 million, 8% of that is $800,000. If you go 50, 50 digital, non digital, now you got $400,000 to spend on digital and $400,000 to spend on something offline.

And then you’ve got these buckets, and then within the buckets, now you’ve got a digital budget. And then you can start to slice and dice that between Google paid, you know, YouTube, an agency, uh, an agency, um, remarketing. Yeah, I mean, we, we love these conversations. But I just wanted to, like, hit on that for the listeners who are trying to figure out what should I spend?

And I think it depends on, well, what do you want to make?

Yeah, I think it depends on the size of your company too. And you know, what, what you, uh, know how many buckets you should have. I think sometimes it’s easy to spread out, have too many buckets. I’ve done that in years past where I feel like I’m doing too many things.

And I think all that comes down to is the other big thing it comes to is like, what actually returned our money in years past. And that’s probably like the biggest factor in the, like, okay, what leads are selling? And by having a CRM system and looking in that system and saying what was the lead source of, you know, or what, how much revenue did each lead source bring in?

Is a good way to say, how big should that bucket be, um, that you’re using?

You also set goals by your service line. Or is it all kind of like, would you rather have a roofing lead? Would you rather have a. A reside. Would you rather. I know what the answer is, but yeah.

Yeah. And I’m, I’m a big, hearty guy. So I said the marketing means, like, advertising ties for Hardy. Uh, I want more Hardy.

Always.

Always.

So, um, but yeah, I mean, there’s definitely, you know, different goals in those. Where it’s like, you know, um, you know, what, where, where do you want to put your effort? Right. Because it’s like. You know, if I want to grow my Hardy, well, then more of my advertising budget has to go to Hardy.

Absolutely. Than spreading it evenly, um, where somebody else may be different. They want to grow their roofing side of the business, so they’re gonna put more money in the roofing. And so, yeah, I’m. I’m just very heavily hearty, and I see it as a good part of my business.

Yep.

Are you having these conversations about. About, like, budgeting and setting KPIs with your, um, clients that you’re working on the consulting side?

Um, yeah, yeah. Uh, we’ll talk to them a little bit about, um, you know, like, where should it all go? Um, I think that’s, like, the number one thing guys want to know is, like, well, how do I get more leads? Right. And so it’s like, you gotta. You got to make those decisions of, like, well, what’s gone well for you so far?

You know, I think that’s always the first question. If you want more leads is, if what’s going well, how can you increase that?

Right.

Um, and then, like I said, it really depends on, like, how big is your company and, like, what are you already doing, um, plays a big role into it.

And you’ve always, I mean, even as a partner, been really receptive to our recommendations and strategies. I mean, we may come back to you. We always know we want Hardy. We do know that. Um, but if we see Windows peaking, you know, if we do see roofing peaking, like, in terms of search volume, you are, I mean, like, you’re an ideal client.

You’re game, you know, your game, you know, and, you know, the end game is, you know, Hardy for that instance. But you’re willing and able to shift budgets around if we need to get leads, because we see Google is, you know, optimizing at that moment for that service. So I think that’s something like, in terms of a good partner, you are receptive to, you know, other options.

Yeah.

So, um, I think, I mean, we’ve been talking for a little while. I really wanted to, like, make sure we got to plug, you know, your services and what you do. We have contractors listening to us for marketing advice. We wanted to offer, you know, what you do, uh, to them.

Cory is going to help you.

Yeah.

Tune up all the other parts of your business.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it comes down to. Right. Like, yeah, every contract is like, I want more leads. And a lot of times leads are directly related to your production. A lot of contractors have a hard time seeing that. And so it’s like, you know, you got a lead come in, you need to have, be able to price that lead.

You need to be able to deliver something that you know the margin on so you know your margins going into it. Um, and then you need to be able to have a good sales process and you need a production process to make that person happy. And if you do all those things, you get a five star review, they’ll refer you, um, you know, they’ll leave you reviews that can generate more leads for your company.

Um, there’s a lot of things that can happen by doing a good job, but also starts with leads. You know, one of the things we do there is just help make sure the messaging they understand. You know, I work with the narrative marketing side of it and just like here, what’s the messaging?

Right. Um, because I think that’s another contractor. Yeah. You know, I think you know, most marketing companies, you know, it’s like, hey, we can, we can help you here. But sometimes it’s like, well, what do you want it to be right? And, and I think that’s important for a contractor to take into consideration.

What do you want it to be? What image do you want to be? Do you want to be a cost competitive contractor? Do you want to lead on quality? And depending on what that is, what’s your message to that, that, that customer? And it should actually kind of follow your whole system.

Right? Should, Right. The messaging and the marketing should match up with the way you deliver your estimates and your sales process and how you back all of that up in your production team. So I just help them see the processes and give uh, them the opportunity to be able to, you know, with Hardy Board, uh, is, hey, here’s how you price it, here’s how you can sell it, here’s how you can produce it in a way that I’ve done it and I’ve built a multi, multi seven figure business doing that.

And so yes, you have here, here to help them if I can and um, give advice where I can and you know, I think that we just need more of that in the construction industry. There’s a lot of tough guy I know best, but I’m not going to tell you anything.

Right.

Um, and we just need more collaboration. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah.

Just to wrap things up. Um, I’d be interested to hear what you think the next few years holds for the home improvement industry. Like what are some big changes that you see coming and where are they coming from?

Yeah, yeah. Um, I think there’s, you know, change is A constant. As technology advances, we’re going to continue to see more change. I don’t think it’s going to slow down in any way. We’re going to see lots of technological changes, uh, in regards to measurements, in regards to CRM systems, um, designs, things like that.

I think technology is going to continue to. It already has been just reshaping what we do and how we do it. A lot of changes coming out of the insurance companies,

um, uh, how they’re covering homeowners. So the amount of coverage that homeowners have, the areas that they’re covering, deductibles, um, approval rates, denial rates, things of that nature. Um, so that’s constantly changing, um, among contractors. And, you know, I think that we’re seeing, you know, um, more contractors having issues in the industry, creating more need for regulation.

You know, I live in a state where there’s not a lot of regulation when it comes to contractors licenses. Um, we continue to see more issues with contractors. We’ll see increased level regulation to make sure, you know, you go to more, you know, bigger areas. You go over to Illinois somewhere, uh, like that.

They have, uh, pretty strict regulations over there and Michigan’s the same way and.

Like some consumer protection kind of regulations.

Absolutely. Yeah. So venture, uh, capital, they’re coming in. You know, they’ve. I’ve been approached, considered, uh, selling my company at one point. I won’t do that anymore. But, uh, they’re here. Um, some of them have been successful. Some of them are having challenges.

Um, so what are the challenges that you’re seeing? I’m assuming you’re talking about companies that have been bought by private equity. Are you seeing them stronger?

Their biggest challenges is retaining their, uh, the employees that are there when they get there, uh, when they lose that staff, you know, they’re the challenges. They want to make more money. You know, venture capital is about money and. Right. We’re not, you know, charities usually.

Nope.

Yeah. So they want to make more money. They got to figure out either how to cut cost or increase, uh, margins to do that, increase revenue. So that’s their biggest challenge, is retaining the employees that are already there, um.

Staff that made the company what it was.

Yeah, absolutely. We see. We’ve seen a couple big companies in town. One of them just, I think, kind of got. One got bought up and went out. Another one, they got bought up and they’ve lost the majority of their team. And so, um, it’s a tough enough business as it is.

And when you lose people that you’ve built for years. Um, it makes it hard to keep going at the same rate.

Well, did you have any other questions?

No, no. Cory, that was great. You actually answered.

Yeah.

Multiple questions while you were all at once. So you knocked it out of the park. Thank you so much for your time. I know.

Yeah, this is fantastic. We will get it edited, get it published, and I hope that we can send some customers your way for JHC in a Box.

Yeah, same here. I think we just got the editing back for the podcast we did. And, um, I haven’t had a chance to watch it yet, but I’m looking forward to getting that up and going too. I think we talked about so much good stuff in there, too, so I appreciate you having me on.

Yeah, I’ve definitely been thinking about the, like, ongoing topics. I think I’m very interested in doing something like, let’s make it a series.

Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s like you said, he’s here.

Well, it’s just like, you know, just going more into depth of, like, all of the. There’s just so many pieces to it. Right. And I felt like when we did ours, we covered so many. I mean, it’s such a long podcast. Thanks for bearing with me, but it’s like, how do we cut those down?

Maybe go a little bit deeper to help out?

So, I mean, the nerd in me would want to do a whole series on spreadsheets and setting KPIs.

That’s probably a good one. Yeah, that’s a really good one, actually.

All right, I’m gonna get Janet to do the outro, so. Okay, Cory, wrap this up. Cory, thank you.

She’s giving me the stink eye.

So we can get about the snow.

Yeah, we got snow here and we gotta drive home and.

Safe travels to Phoenix.

Yeah. Thank you so much for your time. Uh, everybody, thanks again for joining us for another episode of Digital Marketing for Contractors. As always, we hope you got value from it. And if you give us a half an hour, we’ll give you some actionable tips, tricks, and insights to help you grow your business.

You can find out more about Fat cat strategies@fatcatstrategies.com thanks. Bye.

Talk to you soon.

Digital Marketing for contractors is created by Fat Cat Strategies. For more information, visit fatcatstrategies. Com.